RE: Nam danh ca so 1 Hai Ngoai

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RE: Nam danh ca so 1 Hai Ngoai - 1/15/2008 3:34:42 AM

Precious Stone

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I cannot agrree with one of you on the fan perspective because I like TN and I'll defend him. Besides, I don't have knowledge about music so I can't agree with one of you on the professional perspective, either. So I keep silent.

Actually, you both disagree to each other due to the word "virtuosity" but the rest because both singers satisfied the other three already. I suggest you use further reserch on the meaning of this word to figure out the nature of the problem before have some changing.

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Post #: 121

RE: Nam danh ca so 1 Hai Ngoai - 1/15/2008 9:13:12 PM

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Precious: Note that Nguyen Hung's main forte is dancing (not ca si, therefore not nam danh ca)...

If you use "divo", then I think Nghe Si Hoai Linh, danh hai, falls under that category for male performers. He is good, unique, has following, been at it long...

(in reply to Precious Stone)

Post #: 122

RE: Nam danh ca so 1 Hai Ngoai - 1/15/2008 10:06:37 PM

TayDoc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sy

quote:

ORIGINAL: TayDoc

Actually Sy, people who don't agree with your vote for "nam danh ca" doesn't mean that they don't understand the meaning of the words "nam danh ca", just that their vote and their opinions are different than yours.

I go for nam danh ca Nguyen Hung day.

Sorry to disagree, when it comes to definitions...You are following Alice in Wonderland's definition "Words are exactly what we what them to mean!"

Again, the fundamental meaning of NDC, divo?, are: virtuosity, longevity, uniqueness of style, charisma/stage personality. Your Nguyen Hung has met several of these conditions, I believe--except that his singing is secondary to his dancing, and I think even his fans would rather he dance than sing. Do you know how long he's been in the business?

TN started singing since he was 7, has devoted his whole life to singing, to refining his art. He is now around 60 I believe, and still has a broad fan base overseas and inside VN--right, Precious Stone?

Sy, I do not follow Alice in Wonderland's definition, please do not put words in my mouth. thank you very much. "words are exactly what we what them to mean" what is that you said exactly again?????
and Sy, please get this, I am not interested in tuan ngoc, therefore I can care less when he started singing.
and again, you are wrong to say that his fans rather see him dance than sing. where did you get that? are you his fan? I am kind of his fan, and I like his singing before his dancing.
I think you are right to your opinion, but you should keep in mind that other people have the right to their own opinion as well. you can think the world of whoever you think is "danh ca", and I or other people can think whoever "danh ca" or god if we like to, and nobody can change our mind. Because, I don't go around trying to change other people mind, or put my words in their mouth. And most importantly, I understand that other people have their own opinion as to whom they think is danh ca or the best or whatever...etc...

(in reply to Sy)

Post #: 123

RE: Nam danh ca so 1 Hai Ngoai - 1/15/2008 10:07:41 PM

TayDoc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sy

Precious: Note that Nguyen Hung's main forte is dancing (not ca si, therefore not nam danh ca)...

If you use "divo", then I think Nghe Si Hoai Linh, danh hai, falls under that category for male performers. He is good, unique, has following, been at it long...

I go for Nguyen Hung's voice before his dancing, he is definitely a danh ca to me.

(in reply to Sy)

Post #: 124

RE: Nam danh ca so 1 Hai Ngoai - 1/15/2008 10:10:55 PM

TayDoc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Precious Stone

I cannot agrree with one of you on the fan perspective because I like TN and I'll defend him. Besides, I don't have knowledge about music so I can't agree with one of you on the professional perspective, either. So I keep silent.
Actually, you both disagree to each other due to the word "virtuosity" but the rest because both singers satisfied the other three already. I suggest you use further reserch on the meaning of this word to figure out the nature of the problem before have some changing.

Stone:
I don't think we have to agree on who we think is danh ca. Why should we, we all have different opinion. The important thing is, respect each other opinion and understand that nobody has to agree with anybody.
This thread is asking for opinion but never asked us to agree with each other.
you vote for TN, I go for NHung. that is all. No big deal.
Cheers

(in reply to Precious Stone)

Post #: 125

RE: Nam danh ca so 1 Hai Ngoai - 1/15/2008 10:32:03 PM

Precious Stone

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sy

Precious: Note that Nguyen Hung's main forte is dancing (not ca si, therefore not nam danh ca)...

If you use "divo", then I think Nghe Si Hoai Linh, danh hai, falls under that category for male performers. He is good, unique, has following, been at it long...

Sy, virtuosity did not mention that a dancer cannot sing well. So we cannot deny that Michael Jackson is legendary.
However, in this specific situation, to me, Nguyen Hung's voice is not bad but it's not impressive. The voice transfers sentimental facets in life but cannot bring us cultural, traditional, historic beauties of VietNam. That's why he cannot be legendary. For over 4000 years, Vietnamese still not have clear rules in music, especially the "Tân nhạc". But all must a agree that a combination between the old and the new is something respectful. Nguyen Hung sang for the present life, the things happening right in front of our eyes. He still not be able to escape from the material world to sublimate in art .In contrast, Tuan Ngoc memorizes of the past and the present as well. We find the definition of Vietnamese, not Saigonese or Hanoian only, in his voice. That's the Vietnamese spirit. For example, NH can sing well with Ghen, Say...elements being expressed in songs of present life but he cannot sing well Thu Quyến Rũ, a combination between the past of the beauty of nature and the present of the beauty of women. In fact, each song has its own beauty but we can't exclude the elements about the past while evaluating the product, that's the condition to be legendary in VN. May you see its pretty conservative as you're living in Western country but Vietnamese music should be different.

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Post #: 126

RE: Nam danh ca so 1 Hai Ngoai - 1/15/2008 10:39:51 PM

Precious Stone

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TayDoc

quote:

ORIGINAL: Precious Stone

I cannot agrree with one of you on the fan perspective because I like TN and I'll defend him. Besides, I don't have knowledge about music so I can't agree with one of you on the professional perspective, either. So I keep silent.
Actually, you both disagree to each other due to the word "virtuosity" but the rest because both singers satisfied the other three already. I suggest you use further reserch on the meaning of this word to figure out the nature of the problem before have some changing.

Stone:
I don't think we have to agree on who we think is danh ca. Why should we, we all have different opinion. The important thing is, respect each other opinion and understand that nobody has to agree with anybody.
This thread is asking for opinion but never asked us to agree with each other.
you vote for TN, I go for NHung. that is all. No big deal.
Cheers

While discussing, we should not use fan perspective. It's subjective to both you and me. Anyway, it's worth discussion to have a general opinion about the conditions to become legendary in Vietnam music. We don't defend any artist, but we must know, in general, what we consider legendary as music is an element of Vietnamese culture. What will happen if American Music Academy ask you about Vietnamese divo? Will you say that's NH? Then the whole wolrd will get that but many other Vietnamese.

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Post #: 127

RE: Nam danh ca so 1 Hai Ngoai - 1/15/2008 11:03:35 PM

TayDoc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Precious Stone

quote:

ORIGINAL: TayDoc

quote:

ORIGINAL: Precious Stone

I cannot agrree with one of you on the fan perspective because I like TN and I'll defend him. Besides, I don't have knowledge about music so I can't agree with one of you on the professional perspective, either. So I keep silent.
Actually, you both disagree to each other due to the word "virtuosity" but the rest because both singers satisfied the other three already. I suggest you use further reserch on the meaning of this word to figure out the nature of the problem before have some changing.

Stone:
I don't think we have to agree on who we think is danh ca. Why should we, we all have different opinion. The important thing is, respect each other opinion and understand that nobody has to agree with anybody.
This thread is asking for opinion but never asked us to agree with each other.
you vote for TN, I go for NHung. that is all. No big deal.
Cheers

While discussing, we should not use fan perspective. It's subjective to both you and me. Anyway, it's worth discussion to have a general opinion about the conditions to become legendary in Vietnam music. We don't defend any artist, but we must know, in general, what we consider legendary as music is an element of Vietnamese culture. What will happen if American Music Academy ask you about Vietnamese divo? Will you say that's NH? Then the whole wolrd will get that but many other Vietnamese.

Correct, if I were asked by anybody, my answer is NHung.

and nobody can speak for other people, vietnamese or not.

(in reply to Precious Stone)

Post #: 128

RE: Nam danh ca so 1 Hai Ngoai - 1/15/2008 11:31:35 PM

Precious Stone

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Can I ask you about the condition to evaluate your answer? Don't say that's because you like NH/NH's voice as I already mentioned that we should not use fan perspective in discussion, if you still want to discuss about the legendary divo of VN.

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Post #: 129

RE: Nam danh ca so 1 Hai Ngoai - 1/18/2008 7:45:36 PM

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In Vietnam, the meaning of words have evolved to suit circumstances. "Danh ca" is associated with those who are A-listers among ca si. Sy has observed how this term has evolved to mean, simply, very famous singer, higher ranked than the "regular singers". It suits today's environment, especially inside VN, there are "thợ viết" who compete for the fêes to write to sustain or launch singing carêers.

Whereas, "danh ca" is (at least in my understanding of Vietnamese language, by definition) is "diva-like", or "divo"...a great singer of renown, having a special place of his/her own. When one thinks of songstresses (female singers), there's the one and only Thai Thanh. Today's VN have not heard to experience Thai Thanh.

For male singers, Sy can only list Tuan Ngoc from overseas communities. Inside VN, Sy have heard in-country concerts, but know not of one of same caliber as Tuan Ngoc. No offense to fans of other male singers, please.

(in reply to Precious Stone)

Post #: 130

RE: Nam danh ca so 1 Hai Ngoai - 1/19/2008 10:06:05 AM

cutheo1

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once again

Sỹ Phú
Tuấn Ngọc

có ai còn théc méc gì nữa hôn ???

(in reply to Sy)

Post #: 131

RE: Nam danh ca so 1 Hai Ngoai - 1/19/2008 9:58:36 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cutheo1

once again

Sỹ Phú
Tuấn Ngọc

có ai còn théc méc gì nữa hôn ???

Shake hands on that, cutheo...we also agrêe that only TN is still alive, no?

(in reply to cutheo1)

Post #: 132

RE: Nam danh ca so 1 Hai Ngoai - 1/19/2008 11:46:28 PM

Precious Stone

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It's not théc méc, we just discuss to have some more general understanding about "nam danh ca".
As Sy said it's up to the audiences to rank some artists as "danh ca", I think Vietnamese is 9 người 10 ý but at least, longevity will take part in the evaluation by the time. If we, the Vietnamese, cannot agree who is danh ca then wait till they die to honor them. How pathetic!

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Post #: 133

RE: Nam danh ca so 1 Hai Ngoai - 1/20/2008 9:32:36 AM

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I'm sure there are many talents in VN that have not had their due, their opportunities...analogous to all fields of endeavor, especially creative arts. Because Sy observes that to rise and succêed in VN, you have to cater to a whole bunch of people, quasi-officials, officials, who are there to be part of that success (i.e., favors, fêes, bribes). By their nature and definition, a true artist does not compromise himself/herself when he/she has inner voice and artistic calling. So, true-form diva/divo's are hard to come by in VN, except for those who are not only talented, but are willing to navigate the commercial pathways of intense marketing and hype (e.g., MyLinh at one time, DVH in another way). No one's said DVH is a nam danh ca? Did we just overlơok him? Or by certain fans/nicks' definition, he is a "nam danh ca"?

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Post #: 134

RE: Nam danh ca so 1 Hai Ngoai - 1/20/2008 8:08:50 PM

phivuong

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minh thay cung co nhieu nguoi hay lam.

nam ca si thi co,
# 1 BANG KIEU !!
# 2 TRAN THAI HOA !
2 tieng hat nay neu cac ban nghe CD thi hay tuyet voi...................

nu ca si thi co,
# 1 KHANH HA !!
# 2 HUONG GIANG, NGOC LIEN, QUYNH DUNG VA MAI THIEN VAN.................

cac ban thay sao ?

(in reply to nhacxua54)

Post #: 135

RE: Nam danh ca so 1 Hai Ngoai - 1/20/2008 9:54:47 PM

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Phivuong: read up...

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Post #: 136

RE: Nam danh ca so 1 Hai Ngoai - 1/20/2008 11:01:44 PM

Precious Stone

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sy

I'm sure there are many talents in VN that have not had their due, their opportunities...analogous to all fields of endeavor, especially creative arts. Because Sy observes that to rise and succêed in VN, you have to cater to a whole bunch of people, quasi-officials, officials, who are there to be part of that success (i.e., favors, fêes, bribes). By their nature and definition, a true artist does not compromise himself/herself when he/she has inner voice and artistic calling. So, true-form diva/divo's are hard to come by in VN, except for those who are not only talented, but are willing to navigate the commercial pathways of intense marketing and hype (e.g., MyLinh at one time, DVH in another way). No one's said DVH is a nam danh ca? Did we just overlơok him? Or by certain fans/nicks' definition, he is a "nam danh ca"?

Dear Sy,
I'm concerned of your nature and definition about true artist. It's perfect for any culture. However, the example you used for that definition is quite Western. For example, My Tam changed herself and still being loved by many fans whilte My Linh can't conquer the hearts of the majority. My Linh personally had perfect background and been well advertised but My Tam naturally got more attention. Why? Being adhere, I want to mention the cultural and regional affection toward the evaluation. It's very strong, not just what belonged to the artists' inner voice but what belonged to the audiences listening habits. It's not easy for a negro to honor Babarra Streisand?

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Post #: 137

RE: Nam danh ca so 1 Hai Ngoai - 1/20/2008 11:42:53 PM

Trieu Minh

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Precious Stone
It's not easy for a negro to honor Babarra Streisand?

PS không nên dùng
chữ trên khi nói chuyện
hay viết.

(in reply to Precious Stone)

Post #: 138

RE: Nam danh ca so 1 Hai Ngoai - 1/21/2008 12:59:49 AM

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So, PS, would My Tam be a diva? Or, My Linh? Or neither?

It's just a matter of definition then. Nam danh ca, nu danh ca, is whatever you wish it to mean.

My point, again, is that in a highly commercialized/favor-based system like VN, truly talented artists may not rise to the top.

Your question re. Barbra...I think most African-Americans would agree Barbra to be a diva, by definition of diva and by her significant lifetime achievements--a very gifted multi-talented artist (singer, perfomer, actor, director). And most all white folks would concur that Marian Anderson or Lena Horne (2 of many "negro" greats who broke the color barrier) a diva in the loftiest sense of the word.

Btw (by the way), I enjoy our exchange. Even if it got me dropped off Karma's favorite nicks list... ; (

(in reply to Trieu Minh)

Post #: 139

RE: Nam danh ca so 1 Hai Ngoai - 1/21/2008 3:08:36 AM

nhacxua54

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i would like to add Anh Ngoc to the list. thanks hehe even though he's very old now living in Virginia.
if you like Thai Thanh as a female singer, then you would love Anh Ngoc as a male singer of the same genre of music. i have one of his album "tro ve di vang" and the hoa am/phoi khi are true to the core thinh' phong` by Vu Thanh and Hoang Trong. songs like Tinh Hoai Huong-Pham Duy , Say Nhac Canh Tan-Vu Thanh, Truong Chi-Van Cao...have an epic feel to it..so grand, and epic i mean like epic saga movies.

(in reply to Sy)

Post #: 140